Today's Passage
This passage comes from the Mytilenean Debate in Book 3 of Thucydides.
Crawley Translation (1910)
“Let this suffice to excuse us for our Medism. We will now endeavour to show that you have injured the Hellenes more than we, and are more deserving of condign punishment. It was in defence against us, say you, that you became allies and citizens of Athens. If so, you ought only to have called in the Athenians against us, instead of joining them in attacking others: it was open to you to do this if you ever felt that they were leading you where you did not wish to follow, as Lacedaemon was already your ally against the Mede, as you so much insist; and this was surely sufficient to keep us off, and above all to allow you to deliberate in security. Nevertheless, of your own choice and without compulsion you chose to throw your lot in with Athens. And you say that it had been base for you to betray your benefactors; but it was surely far baser and more iniquitous to sacrifice the whole body of the Hellenes, your fellow confederates, who were liberating Hellas, than the Athenians only, who were enslaving it. The return that you made them was therefore neither equal nor honourable, since you called them in, as you say, because you were being oppressed yourselves, and then became their accomplices in oppressing others; although baseness rather consists in not returning like for like than in not returning what is justly due but must be unjustly paid.
“Meanwhile, after thus plainly showing that it was not for the sake of the Hellenes that you alone then did not Medize, but because the Athenians did not do so either, and you wished to side with them and to be against the rest; you now claim the benefit of good deeds done to please your neighbours. This cannot be admitted: you chose the Athenians, and with them you must stand or fall. Nor can you plead the league then made and claim that it should now protect you. You abandoned that league, and offended against it by helping instead of hindering the subjugation of the Aeginetans and others of its members, and that not under compulsion, but while in enjoyment of the same institutions that you enjoy to the present hour, and no one forcing you as in our case. Lastly, an invitation was addressed to you before you were blockaded to be neutral and join neither party: this you did not accept. Who then merit the detestation of the Hellenes more justly than you, you who sought their ruin under the mask of honour? The former virtues that you allege you now show not to be proper to your character; the real bent of your nature has been at length damningly proved: when the Athenians took the path of injustice you followed them.
Modern Translation
Let this be sufficient to justify our collaboration with the Persians. We will now attempt to demonstrate that you have harmed the Greeks more than we have, and deserve far greater punishment. You claim that you became allies and citizens of Athens to defend yourselves against us. If that were true, you should have merely summoned Athenian help against us alone, rather than joining them in attacking others. This option was available to you, especially if you felt the Athenians were leading you astray, since Sparta was already your ally against the Persians—as you constantly emphasize—and this alliance would have been adequate to deter us while allowing you to deliberate safely. Yet you freely chose, without any coercion, to align yourselves with Athens. You argue it would have been dishonorable to betray your benefactors; but surely it was far more dishonorable and unjust to betray all the Greeks—your fellow allies who were liberating Greece—than to betray only the Athenians, who were enslaving it. The reciprocity you showed them was neither proportionate nor honorable, for while you summoned them because you claimed oppression, you then became their partners in oppressing others. True dishonor lies not in failing to return evil for evil, but in failing to repay what is justly owed when such repayment would be unjust.
Furthermore, having clearly demonstrated that you avoided Persian collaboration not for Greece's sake, but merely because Athens also resisted and you wished to side with them against everyone else, you now seek credit for actions taken to please your allies. This is unacceptable: you chose the Athenians, and with them you must accept the consequences. Nor can you invoke the original alliance and expect its protection now. You betrayed that alliance by actively supporting, rather than preventing, the subjugation of Aegina and other member states—and this while enjoying your traditional institutions freely, unlike us who acted under duress. Finally, before the siege began, you received an offer to remain neutral and join neither side, which you rejected. Who, then, deserves Greek hatred more than you, who pursued their destruction while pretending virtue? The excellence you once claimed has proven foreign to your nature; your true character stands exposed: when Athens chose injustice, you followed.
Historical Context
This passage comes from the Mytilenean Debate in Book 3 of Thucydides. After Mytilene's failed revolt against Athens in 428-427 BCE, the Athenians initially voted to execute all adult males and enslave the women and children. The next day, they reconsidered and held a second debate. This speech is part of the Theban response to Plataean arguments during the siege of Plataea. The Thebans are justifying their own Persian collaboration (Medism) during Xerxes' invasion while condemning Plataea's alliance with Athens. The speakers argue that Plataea's voluntary alliance with imperial Athens is worse than Thebes' forced collaboration with Persia. This debate exemplifies Thucydides' interest in how power dynamics shape moral arguments and how states justify their actions through appeals to justice while pursuing self-interest.
Key Themes
Annotations & References
Medism
Medism refers to Greek states collaborating with the Persian Empire (the Medes). During Xerxes' invasion of 480-479 BCE, many Greek cities submitted to Persia. After the Persian defeat, 'Medizing' became a serious political accusation used to discredit rivals, as seen in this Theban defense.
Learn more →Plataea and Athens
Plataea was Athens' oldest ally, having fought alongside them at Marathon (490 BCE). This special relationship made Plataea unique among Boeotian cities and created lasting enmity with Thebes, the dominant Boeotian power. The alliance symbolized resistance to both Persian and later Theban hegemony.
Learn more →Aegina Subjugation
Aegina, a naval rival of Athens, was forced into the Delian League around 457 BCE. The Thebans cite Plataea's complicity in this subjugation as evidence of their willing participation in Athenian imperialism, contradicting Plataea's claims of acting defensively.
Learn more →Reciprocity in Greek Ethics
The Greek concept of reciprocity (helping friends, harming enemies) was fundamental to their ethical thinking. The Thebans argue that Plataea violated this principle by helping Athens oppress other Greeks who had helped liberate Greece from Persia.
Learn more →Parallel Ancient Sources
Herodotus: Histories (Book 9.1-89)
Herodotus describes the Battle of Plataea (479 BCE) where Plataea fought alongside Athens against Persia, establishing the alliance that the Thebans now critique. This provides background for understanding the historical grievances.
Read passage →Isocrates: Plataicus (Sections 1-62)
This speech, delivered around 373 BCE, presents Plataean arguments against Thebes after Plataea's second destruction. It offers a Plataean perspective on the same historical grievances debated in Thucydides.
Read passage →Xenophon: Hellenica (Book 5.4.1-66)
Xenophon describes later Theban-Spartan conflicts and Theban justifications for their actions, showing continuity in how Greek states used historical precedents and moral arguments to justify political decisions.
Read passage →Discussion Questions
- How do the Thebans distinguish between voluntary and involuntary collaboration with a hostile power? Is their distinction convincing?
- What role does the concept of reciprocity play in the Theban argument? How does this reflect Greek values about friendship and enmity?
- The Thebans argue that Plataea should have remained neutral. Was neutrality a realistic option for small states caught between great powers?
- How does this speech illustrate the use of historical precedent in political argumentation? What are the strengths and weaknesses of such appeals?